IDIOPATHIC HEAD TREMORS
This is what I’m finding from a simple google search about head tremors in Dobermans..
the Doberman in the video isn't one of ours.
I’ve only ever heard of 2 Dobermans with true epilepsy and they had grand mal seizures, no doubt about what was happening
There is some information (the article on "Doberman Head Bobbing Syndrome" for one is on the DPCA breeder education website I believe.
The following is the post I keep sending out:
I'm basically rather uncomfortable with the information and conclusions drawn in that article about the "Doberman Head Bobbing Syndrome". I read it some while ago when it was first published and didn't agree with some of it then and still don't and I've written about "head bobbing" so often now I should really remember to save the text and simply repost it when it comes up again.
My information is entirely anecdotal--but I wonder if the conclusions drawn in the article have a big enough data base to be accurate.
One thing is certain--this isn't new and I don't see it more often now than I did 10, 20, 30 or 40 years ago. But then I've been looking at the breed for a long time. I saw the occasional puppy with a head tremor in the 60's and I see an occasional puppy with a head tremor now.
The first time I read the article it struck me that it was almost as if two different syndromes were being described.
The first Dobe I had who had (what I really couldn't call a head bob--but rather a tremor) a head shake was whelped in 1961. When she was about 5 months old I was reading and she was playing in the same room--I looked to see what she was doing because she was being too quiet (kids and puppies make noise) and she was sitting and looking at me. Her head was quivering--this was not a bob, not much of anything except a tremor--it looked the way you might imagine a shiver would look confined to the head alone. I said, "Dee!" and it stopped. For several months she would do this every three or four weeks--there didn't seem to be any apparent trigger--it was as likely to happen after she'd been playing hard as it was right after she woke up.
I took her to her vet--she was obliging enough to have an episode in the office--we ran what tests were available and seemed appropriate (not many) and ultimately came to no conclusions--her vet records said "fine tremor (etiology unknown) affecting the head only".
When she had an episode she'd get a distant look in her eye and the fine tremor would start but as soon as you called her name she was back to normal--wondering why you were saying "Dee!"
By the time she was a year old she had stopped having the tremors at any particular interval--and by the time she was three, as far as I know, she had stopped having them at all.
The second dog that I owned who had head tremors was whelped in 1996--and like the bitch started having an occasional tremor about the time he was 5 months old. He never did have as many as she did--his showed up every five or six months or so and by the time he was 2 he stopped having them and didn't have one (at least not when I was around to see it until he was well over six--that was the last one I saw him have.
Over the period of years between the first bitch and the recent dog I owned a fair number of Dobes and while I didn't have another who had head tremors I saw them fairly frequently in dogs owned by other people. Often the owners never even noticed that the dogs were having an episode and more than once I asked owners "How often does he have those?" and got the answer "Have what?"
I have also seen dogs who had symptoms which really could be described as a "head bob". At least one dog was found to have an invasive brain tumor when a necropsy was performed after he was put to sleep because of increasing episodes of head shaking and ultimately seizures. I know of another who ultimately was diagnosed with a liver disease and as the disease grew worse so did the head shaking. But these didn't look anything like that fine tremor that I've seen in dogs of mine, friends dogs and hear about regularly.
I hear about things that people believe have helped these tremors--B vitamins, supplemental vitamin E, feeding a variety of "natural" diets (as opposed to good quality kibble) including both entirely raw as well as home cooked.
The fact is that when these tremors show up in puppies in the four to six month range they seem to eventually go away, by themselves or appear so infrequently that there may literally be years between episodes.
This seems to happen whether the dogs get B vitamins (any combination you may care to think of) or not. Whether you give vitamin E--or not. And lastly no matter what kind of diet you end up feeding--no matter whether it contains grains (or not) or is raw--or cooked or homemade or bought at a feed store.
You can make of this what you will--I would suggest if you see something like this in a dog of yours that you ask about it at the next regular appointment with your vet. Generally if you can offer the dog a cookie or say its name and it stops the symptoms it will probably turn out to be nothing that our present diagnostics can determine but if it worries you then you should ask about it and keep track of the episodes and their frequency and duration so that you can offer some information to your vet.
There are certainly things that will make a dogs head shake and some very serious things indeed--but for the most part those that I've heard about have started to occur in older dogs--not in puppies as the fine tremors tend to.
I've also heard people claim that some lines are more prone to this than others--and it may be true--as I say my information is entirely anecdotal and in my experience the two dogs I've owned who had these fine tremors as puppies had common ancestors but they were about 15/16 generations back in the recent dog before you get to dogs that were also in the pedigree of the bitch from the 60's.
The bottom line would be to discuss this with your veterinarian--new information turns up out of research every day and for the record I've seen other breeds do the same thing--at least a couple of terrier breeds, a springer, a weim and a standard poodle that I can think of just off hand.
Doberdog,
Because your dog is 8 months old and still growing, I would consider the possibility that the head tremors could be caused by low calcium levels. A growing dog has a high calcium requirement, check the information below and read the information at the links provided on hypocalcemia.
One of the potential adverse reactions to vaccinations is seizures -- has your dog recently been vaccinated?
Combination Vaccines, Multiple Shots--on Page 16 of the 2003 AAHA Guidelines under Immunological Factors Determining Vaccine Safety, it states that: "Although increasing the number of components in a vaccine may be more convenient for the practitioner or owner, the likelihood for adverse effects may increase. Also, interference can occur among the components. Care must be taken not to administer a product containing too many vaccines simultaneously if adverse events are to be avoided and optimal immune responses are sought. "
Significant calcium deficiency can cause seizure-like episodes, have you had a blood test to check calcium and phosphorous levels? High phosphorous foods (meat, eggs, nuts) bind with calcium, as do high oxalate foods (oatmeal) and may deplete your dog's levels to a point where it will cause problems. Poison will also cause seizures.
You might want to do an online search for "canine hypocalcemia" or just "hypocalcemia". This link Canine Eclampsia... Hypocalcemia... Puerperal tetany... Milk Fever in Dogs .... Chinaroad Lowchens of Australia will take you to an article on this subject in which it states that the signs of low calcium levels (hyocalcemia) are: "Muscle tremors, restlessness, panting, incoordination, grand mal seizures and fever as high as 106."
Further, the above articles thats a one of the possible causes: Poor Nutrition - "Home brewed" diets usually are at fault. The owner innocently may be adding too much unbalanced meat to the bitch's diet, thinking the extra protein is beneficial. What's really happening is the calcium to phosphorus ratio is out of balance because the amount of useful calcium in the food is actually reduced! The ideal contains a ratio of calcium to phosphorus of 1.2 to 1. (Many organ meats such as liver have a ratio of calcium to phosphorus of 1 to 15!! Liver is great for dogs but if it comprises a large part of the diet, the calcium/phosphorus ratio of the diet will be improper.)
If you have chickens, you should be aware that their droppings are extremely high in phosphorous and can cause a problem if your dog eats too many of them. If the droppings are charging your dog's blood with phosphorous, it's going to drain him/her of calcium in order to maintain proper pH balance and cause muscle twitching, etc...
Check this link HPA | Phosphorous | FAQs on phosphorous from the Health Protection Agency, especially this quote: "It has been used as a rat and rodent poison.."
Check this site Eclampsia (Puerperal Tetany, Milk Fever, Hypocalcemia) in Dogs "Eclampsia, also called milk fever or puerperal tetany, is an acute, life-threatening disease caused by low blood calcium levels (hypocalcemia) in dogs ...."
One of our dogs developed severe seizures after the second of his puppy rabies shots -- his head shook so hard we thought his eyes would pop out, it was terrifying. After this seizure activity triggered by the vaccine, he became prone to them from other triggers. Whenever he ate too many high phosphorous foods (or chicken droppings), he would seize. Giving him 1/2 a quart of plain organic yogurt would calm his seizures within 15 minutes, when they were food-related.
Personally, I would have a complete blood count done to check for mineral levels if you don't think vaccines or something your dog is eating is causing the seizures. PLUS, I would consult a Homeopathic/Holistic veterinarian for an alternative treatment, you can do an online search for one near you at American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association AHVMA - American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association, Academy of Veterinary Homeopathy The Academy of Veterinary Homeopathy.
Kris L. Christine
Founder, Co-Trustee
THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND
PERMISSION GRANTED TO CROSS-POST THIS MESSAGE.
Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What We Know and Don't Know, Dr. Ronald Schultz Duration of Immunity
World Small Animal Veterinary Association 2007 Vaccine Guidelines - WSAVA - Scientific Advisory Committee Scroll down to Vaccine Guidelines 2007 (PDF)
The 2003 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are accessible online at Special Report .
The 2006 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are downloadable in PDF format at About AAHA .
Veterinarian, Dr. Robert Rogers,has an excellent presentation on veterinary vaccines at Home
Our trainer, who also works for a reputable vet in the area did some digging for us (thank you Judy) and also was wondering about "Chronic active hepatitis (copper toxicosis) - Biological defect in Doberman's ability to remove copper from the body."
Is that something that should be tested for to rule it out?
The other interesting info she came up with, which fits our dog to a tee is from Doberman Pinschers Home Page
Quote:
Head Shaking: Some Dobermans display a head shaking tremor like symptom when they reach about 6 months old. No studies can be found on this symptom and most veterinarians are unfamiliar with this condition. It seems that this condition is known within the Doberman community but little else is known. Head-shaking can last a few seconds or a few minutes. The dog seems alert and is able to respond to it’s name. Some see a pattern –appears during a relaxation phase after high energy exercise --- appears in anticipation/anxiety forms such as of just before being feed, getting ready for an outing to an exciting event, or when you arrive home. Frequency of condition seems to vary with the trigger. Can be 1 a month or more. It seems to be a condition that stays with the dog through-out it’s life span and does not affect other functions and does not progress to other body parts shaking. This information is provided by Daphne Robert-Hamilton who has a bitch with this condition (Jazmine started around 6 months old) and knows of two other Dobermans that are related and also have this condition. She has also received emails from other Doberman owners looking for answers about this Head-Shaking condition.
the Doberman in the video isn't one of ours.
I’ve only ever heard of 2 Dobermans with true epilepsy and they had grand mal seizures, no doubt about what was happening
There is some information (the article on "Doberman Head Bobbing Syndrome" for one is on the DPCA breeder education website I believe.
The following is the post I keep sending out:
I'm basically rather uncomfortable with the information and conclusions drawn in that article about the "Doberman Head Bobbing Syndrome". I read it some while ago when it was first published and didn't agree with some of it then and still don't and I've written about "head bobbing" so often now I should really remember to save the text and simply repost it when it comes up again.
My information is entirely anecdotal--but I wonder if the conclusions drawn in the article have a big enough data base to be accurate.
One thing is certain--this isn't new and I don't see it more often now than I did 10, 20, 30 or 40 years ago. But then I've been looking at the breed for a long time. I saw the occasional puppy with a head tremor in the 60's and I see an occasional puppy with a head tremor now.
The first time I read the article it struck me that it was almost as if two different syndromes were being described.
The first Dobe I had who had (what I really couldn't call a head bob--but rather a tremor) a head shake was whelped in 1961. When she was about 5 months old I was reading and she was playing in the same room--I looked to see what she was doing because she was being too quiet (kids and puppies make noise) and she was sitting and looking at me. Her head was quivering--this was not a bob, not much of anything except a tremor--it looked the way you might imagine a shiver would look confined to the head alone. I said, "Dee!" and it stopped. For several months she would do this every three or four weeks--there didn't seem to be any apparent trigger--it was as likely to happen after she'd been playing hard as it was right after she woke up.
I took her to her vet--she was obliging enough to have an episode in the office--we ran what tests were available and seemed appropriate (not many) and ultimately came to no conclusions--her vet records said "fine tremor (etiology unknown) affecting the head only".
When she had an episode she'd get a distant look in her eye and the fine tremor would start but as soon as you called her name she was back to normal--wondering why you were saying "Dee!"
By the time she was a year old she had stopped having the tremors at any particular interval--and by the time she was three, as far as I know, she had stopped having them at all.
The second dog that I owned who had head tremors was whelped in 1996--and like the bitch started having an occasional tremor about the time he was 5 months old. He never did have as many as she did--his showed up every five or six months or so and by the time he was 2 he stopped having them and didn't have one (at least not when I was around to see it until he was well over six--that was the last one I saw him have.
Over the period of years between the first bitch and the recent dog I owned a fair number of Dobes and while I didn't have another who had head tremors I saw them fairly frequently in dogs owned by other people. Often the owners never even noticed that the dogs were having an episode and more than once I asked owners "How often does he have those?" and got the answer "Have what?"
I have also seen dogs who had symptoms which really could be described as a "head bob". At least one dog was found to have an invasive brain tumor when a necropsy was performed after he was put to sleep because of increasing episodes of head shaking and ultimately seizures. I know of another who ultimately was diagnosed with a liver disease and as the disease grew worse so did the head shaking. But these didn't look anything like that fine tremor that I've seen in dogs of mine, friends dogs and hear about regularly.
I hear about things that people believe have helped these tremors--B vitamins, supplemental vitamin E, feeding a variety of "natural" diets (as opposed to good quality kibble) including both entirely raw as well as home cooked.
The fact is that when these tremors show up in puppies in the four to six month range they seem to eventually go away, by themselves or appear so infrequently that there may literally be years between episodes.
This seems to happen whether the dogs get B vitamins (any combination you may care to think of) or not. Whether you give vitamin E--or not. And lastly no matter what kind of diet you end up feeding--no matter whether it contains grains (or not) or is raw--or cooked or homemade or bought at a feed store.
You can make of this what you will--I would suggest if you see something like this in a dog of yours that you ask about it at the next regular appointment with your vet. Generally if you can offer the dog a cookie or say its name and it stops the symptoms it will probably turn out to be nothing that our present diagnostics can determine but if it worries you then you should ask about it and keep track of the episodes and their frequency and duration so that you can offer some information to your vet.
There are certainly things that will make a dogs head shake and some very serious things indeed--but for the most part those that I've heard about have started to occur in older dogs--not in puppies as the fine tremors tend to.
I've also heard people claim that some lines are more prone to this than others--and it may be true--as I say my information is entirely anecdotal and in my experience the two dogs I've owned who had these fine tremors as puppies had common ancestors but they were about 15/16 generations back in the recent dog before you get to dogs that were also in the pedigree of the bitch from the 60's.
The bottom line would be to discuss this with your veterinarian--new information turns up out of research every day and for the record I've seen other breeds do the same thing--at least a couple of terrier breeds, a springer, a weim and a standard poodle that I can think of just off hand.
Doberdog,
Because your dog is 8 months old and still growing, I would consider the possibility that the head tremors could be caused by low calcium levels. A growing dog has a high calcium requirement, check the information below and read the information at the links provided on hypocalcemia.
One of the potential adverse reactions to vaccinations is seizures -- has your dog recently been vaccinated?
Combination Vaccines, Multiple Shots--on Page 16 of the 2003 AAHA Guidelines under Immunological Factors Determining Vaccine Safety, it states that: "Although increasing the number of components in a vaccine may be more convenient for the practitioner or owner, the likelihood for adverse effects may increase. Also, interference can occur among the components. Care must be taken not to administer a product containing too many vaccines simultaneously if adverse events are to be avoided and optimal immune responses are sought. "
Significant calcium deficiency can cause seizure-like episodes, have you had a blood test to check calcium and phosphorous levels? High phosphorous foods (meat, eggs, nuts) bind with calcium, as do high oxalate foods (oatmeal) and may deplete your dog's levels to a point where it will cause problems. Poison will also cause seizures.
You might want to do an online search for "canine hypocalcemia" or just "hypocalcemia". This link Canine Eclampsia... Hypocalcemia... Puerperal tetany... Milk Fever in Dogs .... Chinaroad Lowchens of Australia will take you to an article on this subject in which it states that the signs of low calcium levels (hyocalcemia) are: "Muscle tremors, restlessness, panting, incoordination, grand mal seizures and fever as high as 106."
Further, the above articles thats a one of the possible causes: Poor Nutrition - "Home brewed" diets usually are at fault. The owner innocently may be adding too much unbalanced meat to the bitch's diet, thinking the extra protein is beneficial. What's really happening is the calcium to phosphorus ratio is out of balance because the amount of useful calcium in the food is actually reduced! The ideal contains a ratio of calcium to phosphorus of 1.2 to 1. (Many organ meats such as liver have a ratio of calcium to phosphorus of 1 to 15!! Liver is great for dogs but if it comprises a large part of the diet, the calcium/phosphorus ratio of the diet will be improper.)
If you have chickens, you should be aware that their droppings are extremely high in phosphorous and can cause a problem if your dog eats too many of them. If the droppings are charging your dog's blood with phosphorous, it's going to drain him/her of calcium in order to maintain proper pH balance and cause muscle twitching, etc...
Check this link HPA | Phosphorous | FAQs on phosphorous from the Health Protection Agency, especially this quote: "It has been used as a rat and rodent poison.."
Check this site Eclampsia (Puerperal Tetany, Milk Fever, Hypocalcemia) in Dogs "Eclampsia, also called milk fever or puerperal tetany, is an acute, life-threatening disease caused by low blood calcium levels (hypocalcemia) in dogs ...."
One of our dogs developed severe seizures after the second of his puppy rabies shots -- his head shook so hard we thought his eyes would pop out, it was terrifying. After this seizure activity triggered by the vaccine, he became prone to them from other triggers. Whenever he ate too many high phosphorous foods (or chicken droppings), he would seize. Giving him 1/2 a quart of plain organic yogurt would calm his seizures within 15 minutes, when they were food-related.
Personally, I would have a complete blood count done to check for mineral levels if you don't think vaccines or something your dog is eating is causing the seizures. PLUS, I would consult a Homeopathic/Holistic veterinarian for an alternative treatment, you can do an online search for one near you at American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association AHVMA - American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association, Academy of Veterinary Homeopathy The Academy of Veterinary Homeopathy.
Kris L. Christine
Founder, Co-Trustee
THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND
PERMISSION GRANTED TO CROSS-POST THIS MESSAGE.
Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What We Know and Don't Know, Dr. Ronald Schultz Duration of Immunity
World Small Animal Veterinary Association 2007 Vaccine Guidelines - WSAVA - Scientific Advisory Committee Scroll down to Vaccine Guidelines 2007 (PDF)
The 2003 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are accessible online at Special Report .
The 2006 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are downloadable in PDF format at About AAHA .
Veterinarian, Dr. Robert Rogers,has an excellent presentation on veterinary vaccines at Home
Our trainer, who also works for a reputable vet in the area did some digging for us (thank you Judy) and also was wondering about "Chronic active hepatitis (copper toxicosis) - Biological defect in Doberman's ability to remove copper from the body."
Is that something that should be tested for to rule it out?
The other interesting info she came up with, which fits our dog to a tee is from Doberman Pinschers Home Page
Quote:
Head Shaking: Some Dobermans display a head shaking tremor like symptom when they reach about 6 months old. No studies can be found on this symptom and most veterinarians are unfamiliar with this condition. It seems that this condition is known within the Doberman community but little else is known. Head-shaking can last a few seconds or a few minutes. The dog seems alert and is able to respond to it’s name. Some see a pattern –appears during a relaxation phase after high energy exercise --- appears in anticipation/anxiety forms such as of just before being feed, getting ready for an outing to an exciting event, or when you arrive home. Frequency of condition seems to vary with the trigger. Can be 1 a month or more. It seems to be a condition that stays with the dog through-out it’s life span and does not affect other functions and does not progress to other body parts shaking. This information is provided by Daphne Robert-Hamilton who has a bitch with this condition (Jazmine started around 6 months old) and knows of two other Dobermans that are related and also have this condition. She has also received emails from other Doberman owners looking for answers about this Head-Shaking condition.
